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Post by Scot on Dec 30, 2003 1:53:13 GMT -5
I never said that jefferson was killing babies. No, neither did anyone else. I for one think that we should calm down for a bit. This forum has 2 agnostics, more towards the athiest side, two athiests, and one christian. Joel is pretty much alone here....
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Post by Nostradanus on Dec 30, 2003 1:53:52 GMT -5
clap.................clap.........clap.....clap...clap..clap clap clap clap (overwhelming applause)
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Post by Nostradanus on Dec 30, 2003 1:56:50 GMT -5
well since you have to use religion, or god in the definition of "atheist" and i don't believe in either, I don't think you can technically call me an atheist....lemme rephrase that, you can call me monkey poo if you want, its a free country, but i don't believe myself to be an athiest is what i meant.
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Post by Scot on Dec 30, 2003 1:59:02 GMT -5
Sorry, I didn't intend to label you. Would the religious consider you athiestic?
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Post by Nostradanus on Dec 30, 2003 2:00:55 GMT -5
yup
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Post by Scot on Dec 30, 2003 2:05:06 GMT -5
Gotcha.
labeling = the work of god
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Post by JohnnyJihadFace on Dec 30, 2003 2:14:05 GMT -5
hahah scot your avatar kicks a high degree of ass. rawr.
speaking of kicking ass, Slayer's god hates us all is a work of art. Listen to it. Clean vocals too for you people who dont like the whole death growl shit that I so devoutly love.
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Post by Scot on Dec 30, 2003 2:18:09 GMT -5
Mmm, thank you for the kind comment. I love you John ;D
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Post by Nostradanus on Dec 30, 2003 2:18:49 GMT -5
he who goes to bed with an itchy butt, wakes up with smelly finger - old chinese proverb
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Post by joelhaldeman on Dec 30, 2003 2:21:55 GMT -5
Jon i would be very interested in hearing where you found out that to God abortion isnt a sin. Because i can give you verses in the bible that say how God was thinking about a persons life before they were born. He though about them while they were still inside Mommy. God had a plan for that person and someone is destroying it. Thats not being loving, your not giving someone a chance. Thats messing with the second and greatest commandment.
You say God created a flawed people, he created people with free-will. Yes he knew adam would screw up and the reason he allowed it was because he wanted people to have a choice. He wanted people to have to make the decision whether or not to love him or ignore him. Now you kept going on about how horrible of a choice it is.... ""follow me, or burn for eternity in everlasting hellfire with more pain than you can ever imagine"
awesome choices here fellas. "
If its such a crappy choice then why are you choosing the one involiving burning in hell? Because when people make the choice they arnt thinking in there mind "serve God, or go to hell" they are thinking "simple pleasure now or not" They dont think about the eternal consequence.
About the star thing. Yes i have thought of this before. The stars are awesome, maybe God even created the stars so we can look at them and admire them and see how beutiful they are. Well God could have very well brought that light to earth real fast for us to see, otherwise how could we enjoy it.
You can not prove a biblical contradiction, You go learn greek, hebrew and aramaic and you go learn how to interpret different books of the bible and then you come back to me and you show me a contradiction. Yes it does look like the bibel contradicts itself at some places example: Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisiters-yes even his own life-he cannot be my disciple" At face value this verse looks like it is saying i have to hate my family to faoolow jesus. One could say this bible verse is tell you to hate yourself making suicide okay. Sure it looks like this verse is a contradiction of "love your neighbore" but you have to study this verse and look into it. What jesus is actually saying is not that you should ahet your family. Hes saying you are to have a love for Jesus that is so great that when you compair it to the love for family it is as though you hate them. You are yto honor Jeuss life more then your own and your familyies. Its saying Jesus is number one, more important then mom, dad, brother, even me. if you are going to take the bible at face value then yes it looks like there are some contradictions but you must study the bible and try and find what the writer is saying. Get an exhaustive concordenance and look up the greek word for hate in this verse. the other thing is some books of the bible must be read idfferently then others. the book of proverbs for example is a poetic book. In the poetic book the writer says things such as "if you seek after wisdom you will have a long life" (example: prov 10:27) this doesnt mean if you seek after wisdom you WILL have a long life. It is saying something more like your life will be more fullfilling. You must read the bible in a way to understand what the reader is saying. you must always look at the verses before and after it, if it doesnt fit then you might be reading it wrong. If you read the bible looking for contradictions then you will find things like that. If you read the bible and try to understand what the reader is saying then you will see there is no contradiction at all.
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Post by joelhaldeman on Dec 30, 2003 2:27:18 GMT -5
hahaha whatever chinese man said that was a very wise and colorfull man. I assume shortly after saying that he was killed though... anyone know?
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Post by H-Zence on Dec 30, 2003 2:29:47 GMT -5
Oh, how wrong.
How about in genesis where God creates man, then animals. Next thing it says is that god created animals before man. Gee, how does that work?
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Post by Nostradanus on Dec 30, 2003 2:30:57 GMT -5
well, supposedly it was Confucious, the great chinese philosopher, but there are people these days that make up ridculous comments and claim he wrote them...its pretty funny, but it wasn't confucious
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Post by JohnnyJihadFace on Dec 30, 2003 2:43:15 GMT -5
Jon i would be very interested in hearing where you found out that to God abortion isnt a sin. Because i can give you verses in the bible that say how God was thinking about a persons life before they were born. He though about them while they were still inside Mommy. God had a plan for that person and someone is destroying it. Thats not being loving, your not giving someone a chance. Thats messing with the second and greatest commandment. You say God created a flawed people, he created people with free-will. Yes he knew adam would screw up and the reason he allowed it was because he wanted people to have a choice. He wanted people to have to make the decision whether or not to love him or ignore him. Now you kept going on about how horrible of a choice it is.... ""follow me, or burn for eternity in everlasting hellfire with more pain than you can ever imagine" awesome choices here fellas. " If its such a crappy choice then why are you choosing the one involiving burning in hell? Because when people make the choice they arnt thinking in there mind "serve God, or go to hell" they are thinking "simple pleasure now or not" They dont think about the eternal consequence. About the star thing. Yes i have thought of this before. The stars are awesome, maybe God even created the stars so we can look at them and admire them and see how beutiful they are. Well God could have very well brought that light to earth real fast for us to see, otherwise how could we enjoy it. You can not prove a biblical contradiction, You go learn greek, hebrew and aramaic and you go learn how to interpret different books of the bible and then you come back to me and you show me a contradiction. Yes it does look like the bibel contradicts itself at some places example: Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisiters-yes even his own life-he cannot be my disciple" At face value this verse looks like it is saying i have to hate my family to faoolow jesus. One could say this bible verse is tell you to hate yourself making suicide okay. Sure it looks like this verse is a contradiction of "love your neighbore" but you have to study this verse and look into it. What jesus is actually saying is not that you should ahet your family. Hes saying you are to have a love for Jesus that is so great that when you compair it to the love for family it is as though you hate them. You are yto honor Jeuss life more then your own and your familyies. Its saying Jesus is number one, more important then mom, dad, brother, even me. if you are going to take the bible at face value then yes it looks like there are some contradictions but you must study the bible and try and find what the writer is saying. Get an exhaustive concordenance and look up the greek word for hate in this verse. the other thing is some books of the bible must be read idfferently then others. the book of proverbs for example is a poetic book. In the poetic book the writer says things such as "if you seek after wisdom you will have a long life" (example: prov 10:27) this doesnt mean if you seek after wisdom you WILL have a long life. It is saying something more like your life will be more fullfilling. You must read the bible in a way to understand what the reader is saying. you must always look at the verses before and after it, if it doesnt fit then you might be reading it wrong. If you read the bible looking for contradictions then you will find things like that. If you read the bible and try to understand what the reader is saying then you will see there is no contradiction at all. as for abortion, yeah I read those verses, and I will explain to you why god cant consider it sin, not here. I have too much to reply to, you can make a new topic if you want for it. And joel im telling you, you are more wrong than you know on this "crappy choice" bullshit you just spit out, and its making me angry. the first thing you say, the whole "then why are you taking the crappy choice" that suggests that I just take the good choice to ensure myself going to heaven incase its true. thats called selling out from what you really believe, wont do it. itd make me a coward. when people make that choice to not believe the ARE NOT choosing simple pleasures, they arent even thinking about simple pleasures, that is the biggest crock of shit I've heard out of you yet. We arent thinking about pleasures, we have gone through the religion and thought about it OVER AND OVER and we have concluded that it is BS, nto because we want to go fuck and drink, but because we truly believe it isnt true. Your assumptions are extremely insulting, and have a complete lack of validity, You are saying the same things that ALL christians say, and its always bs. You make fucked up assumptions that we just want to have wordly pleasures so we choose to not follow god, no, wrong. We dont believe god is there, we think its all bull. Your entire point is just flat out wrong, I dont care if we're supposed to be objective here, you are making rude assumptions that are very, very wrong. I suggest you stop mentioning your ignorant belief that atheists and agnostics live lives full of horrible wordly pleasures and lack morals, its simply not true. Its used so much by cchristians while arguing because they have a superiority issue, they look down on nonbelievers thinking of us as less intelligent and having no morals. And you joel, really seem to share these qualities with the rest of your religion by spouting off this shit. your entire paragraph on the stars is one large, mircrowaved for our pleasure pile of bullshit. You just made a bunch of assumptions and guesses about what your god intended based on the fact that I presented you with extremely solid scientific evidence that your religon's validity is impossible. You cant just guess shit and make shit up like you just did and spin it off as gods intention and claim to get away from science. sorry, doenst work, and it should be obvious to anyone who is reading this that you cant argue with it. as far as contradictions go, the one you mentioned, your right, if I had to interpret it I would do so just as you did, I understand what god meant. I dont consider that a contradiction, I do however consider it your god being a dickhead (again) but thats besides the point. Heres a contradiction for you, clear as day too. "God is not like men, who lie; he is not a human who changes his mind. Whatever he promises, he does; he speaks and it is done."---------Numbers 23:19 "So the lord changed his mind and did not bring on his people the disaster he threatened"---- Exodus 32:14 pretty self explanatory, and some people try to argue it (un-effectively) so if you wanna prod it we can do that. Shoot.
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Post by joelhaldeman on Dec 30, 2003 2:45:48 GMT -5
noooooooooooo maybe you need to brush up on creation go read genesis 1 God creates animals first then man. If you want to show my a bible evsre that says man was created before animals then go ahead and give me a reference. Otherwise you have no claim.
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