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Post by joelhaldeman on Mar 18, 2004 21:53:04 GMT -5
So I must ask the question, if there is no God, or even if there is and you choose to ignore him, what would one live for? Where is the pursuitm of happiness? Is it in money? Is it in raising a family? What does anything matter if we wont be accountable for anything we do? And how does the conscience evolve? Im not trying to argue right now but im just wondering what you guys aim for in life. What are your dreams? What is 'the happy life'?
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CrotchKickSteve
Novice
God owed the mofia 10 bucks 3000 years ago and was never seen again
Posts: 60
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Post by CrotchKickSteve on Mar 18, 2004 22:32:27 GMT -5
I think of my death and me dying all the time ... like 24/7.. I think i should die right now actually
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Post by Scot on Mar 18, 2004 22:34:59 GMT -5
Well.....the answer to all of the questions is simple, for me personally: I'm doing it for myself. I'm doing it because I have needs wants and desires, and because I CHOOSE to. I have made the choice to do all of these things and to pursue happiness. I would assume it is out of human nature, but then again, not all desire to be happy, I suppose.
So are you saying that God is a logical reason behind all of these things? Someone we can't see, feel, personally talk to? Blind faith is the answer then? I know you will argue here that Christianity is not blind faith....but do as you will, it's not my concern. I'm living my life unselfishly doing what it is in my best interest. By this I mean I am helping others, and helping myself, by nature, by my set morals, because my mind knows what it is right and wrong. Right and wrong were program into my mind from birth. God was not programmed into my mind, or yours, and again, you can argue with that, but i KNOW the truth, just as you do.
Sorry for my rambling.
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Post by JohnnyJihadFace on Mar 18, 2004 22:42:10 GMT -5
So I must ask the question, if there is no God, or even if there is and you choose to ignore him, what would one live for? Where is the pursuitm of happiness? Is it in money? Is it in raising a family? What does anything matter if we wont be accountable for anything we do? And how does the conscience evolve? Im not trying to argue right now but im just wondering what you guys aim for in life. What are your dreams? What is 'the happy life'? This is a question asked a lot, and I'm glad you weren't rude as others have been about it. The pursuit in happiness is there all of them same, the difference being that your pursuit of happiness involves pleasing/serving god. This is what you find happiness doing, and in return he, or the religion i should say rewards you with several things, no need to list them as the things I am speaking of are obvious. The pursuit of happiness in myself, I say myself because I can only speak for myself here, but my 'path to happiness'.. lies in the people around me, the earth I live on, and the many things I have a passion for. You can call them 'worldly' things if you would like. But I find happiness in the people and things around me, my friends, my family, music, life itself, and hell, even me. I enjoy being me, alive.. here. As for not being accountable for anything we do, this is a common misconception, and a big one if you ask me. We are very accountable for what we do, just as almost every human being is. And I don't mean accountable to any god, or authority, we are accountable to ourselves.. to our self worth, our self image, to our integrity and our own standards we have set for ourselves to live by. I would agree with you in saying that a great deal of people have these standards mixed up, but that isn't because of any god's input, but because of my own set of standards or morals if you will. Ones that conflict with mine will always seem somewhat inferior. We are accountable for our actions because of our consciousness, whether you believe it or not guilt rots at anyone who tears their morals apart or disgraces themselves *by their own standards*. Nice issue to discuss. Good post.
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Post by FollowTheReaper on Mar 18, 2004 22:44:14 GMT -5
Just attempt to be happy in life and forget the thought of an afterlife because its a waste of time and enegry. Christians pump money into churches and pray to their god but never get an answer and never get anything for their money. They priests just get nicer places to rape little boys in. Faith is utterly pointless and only the feeble minded fall under its weak spell.
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Post by JohnnyJihadFace on Mar 18, 2004 22:50:26 GMT -5
While I agree with what reaper just said, it was a simplified response, if anyone wishes to make a run at tearing it apart.. please realize the post isnt the extent of the viewpoint.
Prepare to debate, grr. bhahahahaahah
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Post by FollowTheReaper on Mar 18, 2004 22:58:09 GMT -5
I love a good argument so please feel free to tear my opinion apart. I believe that what this kind of forum is for so i wont think any less of you (any less than i already do anyway) if you oppose me. Just be prepared to get into a heated debate on which i have a lot of practice and will probably be able to make you look like a fool.
oh... and have a good day
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Post by FollowTheReaper on Mar 18, 2004 23:12:15 GMT -5
I would also like to add that the majority of religious people who read my posts would probably think of me as a sinner and someone who does many bad things. This is very far from the truth. I woudl guarantee that I am a much better person than most "Christians" who think they are in touch with god simply because they wear a cross around their neck but then they go out and sell drugs, degrade women, and so on and so forth. Basically im speaking about rappers and wiggers here but many others fall into that category. I am not even religious and I can easily argue that I have higher moral standards than most of you "Christians". Just to give a few examples really quick that a large majority of self-proclaiming christians have probably already done that i would never think of doing:
For one, i have NEVER cheated on a girl and NEVER would... I am not a piece of scum like most guys out there. I have NEVER done ANY drugs. Sure, I have drank before but very few times and only enough to get drunk once... and that was at my own house. I am not sexually promiscuous as many of the "Christians" i know are. Granted this is not always by choice but even if it were, being a whore isnt exactly my style.
Just a few things to dwell on... and since you believe in hell, you will have plenty of time to dwell on it as you eternally burn there.
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Post by Colliohn on Mar 19, 2004 8:55:59 GMT -5
I live for the journey: the never ending search for knowledge of our origins and the present day world around us. Does this bring me happiness? Not always, because I find stubling blocks in my persuit of truth. Incomplete knowledge based on limited technology, for one; Lie-mongers who wish to tear apart or belittle this search for knowledge (out of fear) that so many noble scientists and philosophers have undertaken for thousands of years is another biggie that gets me down.
Everything matters. It is as simple as that. Life matters even more so, because it is the most complex 'thing' in the known universe.
We are all accountable to our selves, our consciences, which have probably evolved based on instincts such as survival of the species, and similar instincts that tell you to watch out for your family. Self-interest is another big instinct that keeps you from doing a lot of things. You don't want to kill yourself, and that might be the biggest instinct of all (except if you are somehow mentally unstable).
I dream of a day when people are no longer blind to the truth.
There is no "Happiness" (with a capital H). There are only periods of happiness, for you cannot be happy all the time unless you are on drugs or pretend you are happy, and then you aren't really happy, but just being fooled by the drugs or fooling yourself.
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Post by joelhaldeman on Mar 19, 2004 22:24:02 GMT -5
well ya see we all agree on a little bit of stuff.
I agree with you 'followthereaper' the money going into most churches is used the wrong way. More money needs to go into missions and helpless people and less money needs to go to an extravagant building and what not. I dont follow the catholics so im not going to try and defend them. There are some very briliant people who have faitj, in fact everyone has faith, you have faith whether you want to deny it or not. And i am glad you think you are better then christians, im not going to say anyone is better then another person however. I suppose you believe in absolute morals if you consider yourself better then other people.
although i would like for you to explain this remark....
so im glad you guys are all in the pursuit of happiness. Just another question, if for some reason you found out there was a God and he did send his son to die on the cross for your sins, would you repent and start living for God? Do you want eternal life or would you rather just cease to exist. If you die and stand before God in heaven and he asks you why he should let you into heaven, what would you say? What would you say if he asks you to explain turning away from him?
If your going to answer this question then great but there is no need for you to put anywhere in your response "but i know this will never happen, so it doesnt matter" i already know what you believe so you dont have to try and tell me. Im just looking for a response IN THE CASE that this would happen
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Post by Colliohn on Mar 19, 2004 22:31:42 GMT -5
Oh, I would *LOVE* for there to be a life after death. If I knew there was a god, I'd do whatever this god required of me in order that I get the good afterlife, not the eternal suffering. But, there isn't a god, so this is hypothetical. ;-)
Oh, and as for the 'turning away': if this god showed himself to me, I'd have no reason to 'turn away' because I'd know this god existed.
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Post by FollowTheReaper on Mar 20, 2004 0:42:20 GMT -5
well for starters, to explain my comment about burning in hell, I am simply stating that most of the people who consider themselves Christians, do all the things that would get them into hell. So, i was being somewhat sarcastic since i obviously dont believe in hell.
About the whole finding out that there is a God thing, If I actually saw God descend down from the sky and land in front of me, I would absolutly believe in him. I would just be following the exact same beliefs i currently have which is, what i see is what i believe. And yes, I would also do what he wished, providing it wasnt something ridiculous.
And lastly, if I were to die and see God in heaven, i would be completly honest. For one, there would be no reason to lie because he would know anyway but thats besides the point. I would tell him that he never showed himself to me and that there was no physical evidence of himself on earth to make me believe so i simply used logic and reason to figure out that he didnt exist. I would then proceed to apologize for not following him while i was alive and I would accept whatever judgement he saw fit.
good night.
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Post by Colliohn on Mar 20, 2004 18:32:36 GMT -5
Ah, yes...
If I die and get to the pearly gates or wherever judgement is passed, I would explain to the passer of judgement that I was given no reason to believe any of this, and if they still wish to throw me in hell then they can blow it out their ear, because all the compassion and love crap that they teach is bogus if they throw innocent people to rot in hell.
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Post by JohnnyJihadFace on Mar 20, 2004 22:22:20 GMT -5
Ah, yes... If I die and get to the pearly gates or wherever judgement is passed, I would explain to the passer of judgement that I was given no reason to believe any of this, and if they still wish to throw me in hell then they can blow it out their ear, because all the compassion and love crap that they teach is bogus if they throw innocent people to rot in hell. exactly, i read an amazing quote but i forget where, who, and what it said exactly word for word. But the idea was just that. If not believing in this doctrine due to being without *near* enough evidence, or (laughably) proof sends me to hell, then here I come, i'll sit there with contentment. If not believing in this doctrine is punishable by condemnation to hell, then i'll be there with open arms. its called cruelty folks. 'god' is a pro.
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Post by Lynnet on Mar 21, 2004 0:07:31 GMT -5
First off, really great topic. "The Journey" pretty much sums it up for me, too (Stole the words right out of my mouth, Col ) When I used to go to church, once I started really thinking about things, I wondered "Why are we serving others to glorify God? Why isn't it just out of the goodness of our hearts? And why doesn't he just do it himself if he wants all the glory?" That and many other things seemed rather silly. As for "meeting god," this is a tricky thing...because humans tend to have rather active imaginations...and easily misinterpret things...If I may quote a really great song, Come Sail Away by Styx: I thought that they were angels But to my surprise They climbed aboard their starships And headed for the skies... If aliens came down and said they were god and provided a whole bunch of "proof," I'll be a whole lot of people would believe it. It all comes down to blind faith in what we feel...feelings are the strangest things, perhaps the main reason that so many, including myself, believe in something more than just the obvious, physical world we live in. Of course, I'll never deny solid proof...that's what really irks me about many religious people... Okay, I'm supposed to be offline and in bed, so I'll just tack on one or a few more quotes...I really enjoy this topic, sorry it's getting so long "I ain't much of a church man, Mark. Guess you might say I'm an agnostic. I don't know." "There's a good bit of agnostic in all of us, Calamity. None of us knows much--only enough to trust to reach out a hand in the dark." -Calamity & Mark, Margret Craven's I Heard the Owl Call My Name (pg 174) "Seize the day, Meribor. Live now; make now always the most precious time. Now will never come again." -Captain Jean-Luc Picard/Caimen, "The Inner Light"Star Trek: The Next Generation "Because I choose to." -Neo, Matrix Revolutions, in response to Smith asking why he must persist (That's all I'll throw at you all for now )
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