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Post by H-Zence on Dec 30, 2003 0:34:36 GMT -5
Agnostic: One who is skeptical about the existence of God.
I was a Christian for a major portion of my life. Then one day I woke up and realized the reason that I believed what I believed. I realized it was time for a change. Time for me to consider other options. And I'm currently agnostic. Mostly everyone who struggles and doubts the way I do is agnostic as well, and that's why I just wanted to start things off and say it's OK to doubt. Don't let anyone tell you you're wrong and that only one thing can be right. Open your eyes and look for yourself.
I did...that's the whole reason this website exists. You don't know what you're missing until you actually take a look around.
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Post by Nostradanus on Dec 30, 2003 0:38:48 GMT -5
I believe it was Thomas Jefferson who once wrote "Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear"
and such is my belief
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Post by JohnnyJihadFace on Dec 30, 2003 0:50:31 GMT -5
indeed, but then again I am one of those know it all Atheists. haha.  |
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Post by H-Zence on Dec 30, 2003 0:53:05 GMT -5
But you haven't believed only one thing your entire life...
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Post by joelhaldeman on Dec 30, 2003 1:14:50 GMT -5
"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear"
Jeffy makes an interesting point, although i disagree. There is no way God would rather have someone not believe in him then believe in him. It obviouse God would rather have a person believe in him and obey him then say "there is no God, and even if there is, im going to do things my way instead of his, i know more then him, after all I HAVE A BRANE!. Why should i obey God, killing babies is right, theres no need to love one another, its all about me and having as much fun as i can." Sounds a little bit crazy to me.
The other thing is, dont think anyone who struggles and doubts doesnt believe in God. I believe in god and just today as i was doing the dishes at burgerking i was thinking-what if this is all a joke, what if im wrong, what if the bible was just written by a bunch of monkey men, what if there is no God. then i thought back to the other night when i was looking up at all the stars and looking into the incredible infinit galexy, i relised this earth is only the beginging. There is no way that we are a mistake. I dont understand how anyone can look into the sky on a dark night and see into the incredble universe, as awesome as it is, and say there is no God. Its simply incredible!
And H-zence i dont understand this one at all....
Don't let anyone tell you you're wrong and that only one thing can be right.
So what your saying is that anything i believe is true? Thats simply crazy. If one person says there is no God and one person says there is a God then someone is obviously wrong. Everyone cant be right all the time. There is only one truth and it is absolute, God does not change based on what you believe. If you think that, then God is not in control, you are, what kind of God would allow his own corupt creation to control Him. If a clay pot said to its maker "lets do things my way" would the maker say "okay"? NO because the one who makes it knows what hes doing.
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Post by Nostradanus on Dec 30, 2003 1:21:09 GMT -5
holy shite where the hell did that come from...
jeffy never said anything about saying "there is no god", he only said "question the existance" and the first rule on this page is just because you think something is "obviouse" doesn't mean it is, so don't use that phrasing again if you want to be taken seriously, as far as the rest of what you said goes, thomas jefferson helped to found this country, just because he doesn't believe in a god doesn't mean that hes going around not loving people and killing babies...I know atheists that are much better humans as far as kindness and loving than some christians...and if you have a brain, you'd know how to spell it
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Post by H-Zence on Dec 30, 2003 1:29:38 GMT -5
So basically just because the universe is amazing, God HAS to exist?
And I don't like the way you made non-believers and abortionists out to be the same people. That kinda pisses me off because I'm not pro-abortion...only under certain circumstances.
Erm, no. Don't know how you got that. I was saying don't let anyone tell you what's true. Discover it for yourself.
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Post by Scot on Dec 30, 2003 1:33:47 GMT -5
Oh Joel... So what YOU are saying, and assuming, is that if one does not believe in God, that they will automatically want to kill babies and have a desire to hate everyone...? Correct me if i'm wrong, but THAT sounds a little crazy to me. The second paragraph, I do see what you are saying. I believe that do believe we created by some sort of God or higher power...it's the only thing that really makes sense to me...but I am still looking into it as much as possible.  You seem to be jumping to conclusions once again my friend. H-Zence said nothing about whatever you believe being true, he just said you should not believe everything you are told. I really can't accept there being ONE absolute truth. To you, Christianity and the bible are the only truths. But why are there so many different versions of Christianity? Also, why do so many people have different interpretations of the bible? I'm sure you'll have some good answers for this. |
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Post by Nostradanus on Dec 30, 2003 1:37:39 GMT -5
COUGH**...excuse me, i was choking on regurgitated christian BS
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Post by H-Zence on Dec 30, 2003 1:38:06 GMT -5
Be nice  |
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Post by joelhaldeman on Dec 30, 2003 1:40:06 GMT -5
Questioning the existence of God is deciding for yourself whether or not God exisits!
I never said that jefferson was killing babies, im sure jefferson was a very nice fellow. My point is God would much rather have someone believe in him and obey him then to question him and disobey him. Im not trying to call anyone who does not belive in God a horrible person although i can see why it looked that way. I agree with you that some athiests are much nicer people then those who claim to be christians. Although just because someone says they are a christian doesnt make them one. And all christians are hypocrits, we all screw up
and if you didnt notice, i am terrible at spelling, english is not my subject. But i would really appreciate it if all you guys make sure i get put down everytime i mispell something, afterall thats what this website is all about, right?
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Post by Nostradanus on Dec 30, 2003 1:43:07 GMT -5
sorry about the spelling joke, its just when i see people jumping to conclusions, it upsets me
and you yourself acknowledged that you question the existance of god, at burger king....remember?... So i wouldn't go saying how wrong jefferson is when you yourself have done the same...as you said...christians sometimes act hypocritically
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CrotchKickSteve
Novice
God owed the mofia 10 bucks 3000 years ago and was never seen again
Posts: 60
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Post by CrotchKickSteve on Dec 30, 2003 1:45:56 GMT -5
Well im to lazy to read all the crap steve and the other guy wrote but i believe whoever created milk should have given it 2 extra days of shelf life before it is spoiled.. wouldnt that just kick a$$? or why $hit couldnt smell like freshly picked strawberries.
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Post by JohnnyJihadFace on Dec 30, 2003 1:46:12 GMT -5
"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear" Jeffy makes an interesting point, although i disagree. There is no way God would rather have someone not believe in him then believe in him. It obviouse God would rather have a person believe in him and obey him then say "there is no God, and even if there is, im going to do things my way instead of his, i know more then him, after all I HAVE A BRANE!. Why should i obey God, killing babies is right, theres no need to love one another, its all about me and having as much fun as i can." Sounds a little bit crazy to me. The other thing is, dont think anyone who struggles and doubts doesnt believe in God. I believe in god and just today as i was doing the dishes at burgerking i was thinking-what if this is all a joke, what if im wrong, what if the bible was just written by a bunch of monkey men, what if there is no God. There is no way that we are a mistake. I dont understand how anyone can look into the sky on a dark night and see into the incredble universe, as awesome as it is, and say there is no God. Its simply incredible! And H-zence i dont understand this one at all.... Don't let anyone tell you you're wrong and that only one thing can be right. So what your saying is that anything i believe is true? Thats simply crazy. If one person says there is no God and one person says there is a God then someone is obviously wrong. Everyone cant be right all the time. There is only one truth and it is absolute, God does not change based on what you believe. If you think that, then God is not in control, you are, what kind of God would allow his own corupt creation to control Him. If a clay pot said to its maker "lets do things my way" would the maker say "okay"? NO because the one who makes it knows what hes doing. wow. Okay, lets deal with this post one piece at a time. Okay, I am relatively sure you missed the point of the quote, Jefferson wasn't trying to say god would rather his people not believe in him and enjoy themselves. I believe that he meant he thought that god would rather someone not believe in him with logical use of their mind to come to the conclusion rather than have someone blindly believe in him. As far as killing babies, doing whatever you want, and thinking your smarter than god. whew. you know, If I had a nickel for everytime I've heard that regurgitated, full of shit line... uh, I'd be rich. First, you assume that abortion is killing a person, (wrong IMO), and you've also assumed that abortion is a sin, (it isnt according to your god, and I'll show you why later). So you've basically said here that people who dont follow god kill babies. Great, I like your christian outlook on nonbelievers. Then, the next line states that they do whatever they want, and im gonna go out on a limb here and guess you mean "sinful acts" such as sex before marraige, getting wasted, etc. Well, wrong once again my friend, I can show you why later as well if you'd like. Furthermore, the fact that you think non-believers live like that is beyond ridiculous, and so very typical of a christian mindset. You'll even go as far as to see a non-believer who does that kind of shit, and then assume that they do it BECAUSE they are a non-believer. That entire theory is full of shit, dont spit it up again, we've heard it over and over, its not true, blah. Lastly you mentioned thinking we're smarter than god, well, you've missed something here. You see someone who doesnt believe in god, cannot think they are smarter than him. Because in their mind, He is not there. at all. Therefore "sinning" isnt disobeying god, its simply disobeying a fabricated full of shit doctrine that the lost believe in. yes, I did just call christians lost. opps, I missed one. You also mentioned not loving eachother. Yeah, say that one again and I have a feeling a bunch of people are going to tell you to eat shit, because it has no truth what so ever. Your beloved savior jesus tries to preach love, great thats fine. But thinking in a serious manner than non-believers dont love and care for one another deeply, wow, just go get slapped or something. thats horrible of you. moving on to your "stars and galaxies" comment. So after you remembered back to when you were looking at the stars you realized that your god must exist? Stars. you know, its really interesting that you mentioned your ability to see the stars. You see, the stars your seeing, are LITERALLY so very far away, that if the earth were really under 10,000 years old as your religion claims, The light given off by those stars would have not yet reached earth, not yet reached our eyesight. So essentially we wouldnt be able to see the stars if our earth was short of billions of years old. Not only that, but some of the stars that you see when you looked up, arent even there anymore, they are stars that have actually exploded billions of years ago and the light your seeing is the light they had been giving off all of those years before. Dont believe me? You can look it up, or you can ask Ms. Griffiths. I read about it, and then asked her if it had validity, she quickly and confidently ASSURED me that I was correct and explained more to me. so next time you look at those stars you might want to think of ways you can twist the story around, maybe the speed of light has changed since then right? or maybe god created the earth and the stars with the light already here right? Blah, bullshit speculation based on wishful thinking. as far as god knowing what he is doing, you might want to ask him why he lets christians add on to the religion by making BOGUS claims that homosexuality, abortion etc. are actually things he is against. You might want to ask him why he has allowed clear biblical contradictions to remain in the bible, you might want to ask him why the hell he created such a horribley flawed race that he ultimately knew very few of which would end up not burning in the depths of your fabricated "lake of fire". You might want to ask him why he let adam and eve sin, and then after that you can ask him why he lets dumbshit people run around claiming we have free will. thats like saying saddam hussein gave the people he murdered free will too, it went like this. "follow me, or get shot in the face." god's goes more like thisL "follow me, or burn for eternity in everlasting hellfire with more pain than you can ever imagine" awesome choices here fellas. by the way joel, some of my post was rude as hell, but you asked for it, im telling you. ranting is fun. bye. |
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Post by joelhaldeman on Dec 30, 2003 1:51:27 GMT -5
Okay im done jumping to conclusions please allow me to climb out of the large whole i just dug.
"To you, Christianity and the bible are the only truths. But why are there so many different versions of Christianity? Also, why do so many people have different interpretations of the bible? I'm sure you'll have some good answers for this. "
to me the bible is the only truth. Christianity can mean a hundred different things today. The reason there are so many different versions of chrisianity is because people sometime do not believe in the entire bible. I can not explain how some religions-such as catholicism- teach the bible yet there doctrin disagrees with the bible. People like to cater god to how they want if you know what i mean. They want their religion to be there own way, if they dont like something the bible teaches then they find a way around it.
also this is moving rather fast and all questions seem to be coming at me right now, please be patient, im only one man with a 56k modem
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