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Post by WaffleHouse on Jan 26, 2004 11:56:04 GMT -5
This is a subject that many people have ideas on...Judgement Day, the Apocalypse, Armaggedon.
A couple nights ago I read the book of Revelation completely for the first time. Wow, if you're a Christian you have to believe some crazy stuff is going to be happening. But was I started thinking was that some of the plagues and earthquakes and other bad things, seems like they could have already happened. It said that a plague would wipe out a 1/3 of the world's population. Well I don't know how many people the black death/plague/whatever killed, but i know it was a lot. It seems like some of that stuff has already happened.
My question is how close are we to the end?
The question is open to believers and non-believers because I know both groups have many of their own opinions and I am interested in them all.
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Post by H-Zence on Jan 26, 2004 12:00:42 GMT -5
This is ironic as I too sat down and read the book of revelations the whole way through just last week.
To tell you the truth the book of revelations is simply too metaphorical for a simpleton such as myself to interpret individually. However if anyone would like to offer ideas, as WaffleHouse said, I'd be open to them.
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Post by WaffleHouse on Jan 26, 2004 12:10:32 GMT -5
Yeah that brings up another question, just how much of Revelation is metaphocial and how much is literal, because you can't tell me its all literal. I mean stars falling from the sky, hail that weighs over a hundred pounds, it sounds a little sketchy.
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Post by Nostradanus on Jan 26, 2004 13:08:54 GMT -5
the stars falling is argued to mean meteors or other heavenly projectiles, as i remember....hence the movie..Armeggedon they just didn't have the understanding of such things then, so they just described it as they could.
but yes, some of these predictions are somewhat outlandish, most likely hyperbole for the fear factor of it all
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Ash
Novice
Posts: 50
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Post by Ash on Jan 26, 2004 21:58:23 GMT -5
revelation is a topic that intrigues me, but i need to look into it more...
this might surprise a lot of Christians, but i don't know if I totally believe in the "tribulation/rapture" deal. If you read parts of Daniel, some of what he says corresponds to some stuff in Revelation. I believe that a lot of these 'events' have happened already...like, WaffleHouse said.
This probably doesn't help much. As I said, I'd like to read up on it more.
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Post by joelhaldeman on Jan 27, 2004 12:45:49 GMT -5
I actually just got done reading a book on revelations and end times and what not. i find it pretty interesting. For just anout every main point in the end of the earth there are basically 3 different view points. The rapture, tribulation, 2nd coming, thousand year reign. The main views are this-either its already happend, its all happening in the spiritual relm, and my favorit-its gonna happen. When interpreting the bible you have to take it as literal as possible and then when it makes no sence at all you try and look at it in another light. The thing you have to remember is when john had this vision he was trying to describ things in his own language when he didnt have words for it. He did not have the word airplane or tank so maybe he said flying eagle and describes it with different parts of an animal(as strong as a bear, teeth like a....) But yeah if you want my take on it, which i try to take as literal as possible its goes something like this. -Jesus dies on cross -Church age(today) -7 year tribulation -Possible Rapture(this is the most widly debated as to whether or not the rapture will take place shortly before the tribulation or durring it. I find most people belive it will happen before simple because they dont want to believe christians will be around durring the tribulation) -Durring the tribulation there will be bad stuff, 2 witnesses will come from heaven who will speak with power and many people will be converted. -3.5 years into the tribulation the witnesses die, 3 days lator they come back to life and go to heaven and people are all like "WOAH! -At this point satan gets thrown out of heaven for ever making him super mad. -Near the 3.5 year mark the anti christ goes into the temple and calls himself God. -Another man appears and he directs the people to worship the anti christ. -The jews now realize that this man is the anti christ and like 144,000 flea into the desert. -The anti christ rallies all his forces near the end of the tribulation to israel in an attempt to destroy the jews -The entire world is not on the anti christs team, there is a massive army from the west(probably india or china-makes sence) they march through some river all the way to israel because they are going to fight the antichrist(the river has been dried up) -When they get there the antichrist either convinces the army to join them or he destroys them. -Right in the heat of the battle when they are destroying the jews Jesus returns with all the christians who were raptured and he simply speaks and all the armies instantly die and birds eat there rotting flesh. -Jesus throws satan into the abyss(lit- bottemless pit ie:prison of some sort) -(there are still people scattered throughout the earth) -this is when the millenium kingdom begins where jesus reigns on earth for 1000 years. -Jesus will visibly rule on earth for 1000 years and christians will rule with him. -There is not a whole lot of information about the thousand year reign but there are still people and there hearts are still evil -Near the end of the thousand years satan is relesed from his prison for one final rebeliion. He gathers people who still have evil hearts and they go to battle against Jesus. -Jesus crushes them after a short time and angels come and pluck all the unsaved people off of the earth. -Then there is all the judgements seats and what not where jesus reviews your life(this might happen earlyier im not sure) -Then pretty much everything is destroyed including heaven and earth and a new heaven and earth are created(i think when they say heaven they refer to the skys and universe and stuff) -The new earth will have a city on it measuring 1400 miles high,wide and deep. -God himself will sit in on a thrown in this new city and people will live there. (im guessing maybe the earth is a whole lot bigger cuz a city 1400 miles high might throw off the orbit a little. Although againt here will be no need for an orbit because there is no day or night because God is light and he is in the city, implys that there might not be a sun to orbit around.) -And then sometime God throws the temporary hell into the lake of fire forever. -Then there is eternity.
I might have misplaced some of those things but thats mostly what i believe and from what i have seen that is what the bible teaches.
Although who knows, im more then sure that when i go to heaven im gonna find out i was wrong about stuff, i cant be right about everything. Sorry that was long, any questions/clarifications?
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Post by Colliohn on Feb 5, 2004 22:30:52 GMT -5
So why not just eternity in this big happy place to begin with? Why all the suffering and evil on Earth when god could've just done this whole spiel to begin with?
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Post by Lynnet on Feb 5, 2004 22:46:36 GMT -5
My sentiments exactly. You don't need to suffer to appreciate how good life is, if it's perfect. Kind of like, you don't need to have disliked bad music to enjoy good music. And then there's that perfection thing; if life is perfect, people argue that we'd be bored...but if it were perfect, we wouldn't be bored, because that would make it not perfect because we were bored and boredom isn't perfect! ::chuckle::
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Post by joelhaldeman on Feb 18, 2004 21:32:47 GMT -5
its all about the fullfillment of prophecy
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Post by JohnnyJihadFace on Feb 28, 2004 0:46:11 GMT -5
now that I know in more detail what revelations says, the religion has become even more ridiculous.
I do not see how the logical person can read all of that and believe that it is true. The real kicker is that if it was true, the god would have to be perfect therefore all of his decisions and actions are perfect, and what was described was farther from perfect than words in this language can describe. I guess jesus hasn't heard of justice, equality, love, or compassion...... oh and must consider murder a perfect action.
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Post by joelhaldeman on Feb 29, 2004 0:11:49 GMT -5
Oh johnny, when will you see. Man is imperfect and doesnt deserve heaven or eternal life. Justice would be to send us all to hell. Equality? Well Jesus died for all sinners not just the ones he likes and when he was seen on earth he was hanging out with the diseased, the poor, and the sick. He crossed barries that were hardly ever crossed before. God is not going to be any kidner to someone based on who he is except by the choice he makes, i believe this brings us back to justice. But you know as far as love and compassion go, i absolutly agree with you. God isnt love, he would never do a kind thing. I mean becoming human and entering into a world enveloped in sin with the sole purpose of dieing a terrible deatha nd being rejected by so many people. I mean he was the outcast of society, how could that possibly show love. I mean for him to go and die on some stupid cross just so me, a stupid sinner can go to heaven and be with him, i mean whats that? i tell ya what it isnt, love and compassion. I mean if god had REAL love he would just let EVERYONE into heaven......but wait, then he wouldnt be just...... I am absolutly appauled by what you just said, its defenetly coming from a mind that doesnt Want to even consider the possibility that Jesus was telling the truth and lived.
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Post by joelhaldeman on Feb 29, 2004 0:13:57 GMT -5
As far as murder, maybe you need to go find yourself a hebrew dictionary and look up "thou shalt not murder" and see what is ment there. Apart from that, god gives and God takes away, he created life therefore he has every right to take it away. Living is a privledge, not a garentee
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Post by JohnnyJihadFace on Apr 10, 2004 15:28:20 GMT -5
i just read this, and I'm going to be late for work.
I'll be back. I get off at 1 (am)
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Post by Colliohn on Apr 10, 2004 17:40:01 GMT -5
Oh johnny, when will you see. Man is imperfect and doesnt deserve heaven or eternal life. Justice would be to send us all to hell. Equality? Well Jesus died for all sinners not just the ones he likes and when he was seen on earth he was hanging out with the diseased, the poor, and the sick. He crossed barries that were hardly ever crossed before. God is not going to be any kidner to someone based on who he is except by the choice he makes, i believe this brings us back to justice. But you know as far as love and compassion go, i absolutly agree with you. God isnt love, he would never do a kind thing. I mean becoming human and entering into a world enveloped in sin with the sole purpose of dieing a terrible deatha nd being rejected by so many people. I mean he was the outcast of society, how could that possibly show love. I mean for him to go and die on some stupid cross just so me, a stupid sinner can go to heaven and be with him, i mean whats that? i tell ya what it isnt, love and compassion. I mean if god had REAL love he would just let EVERYONE into heaven......but wait, then he wouldnt be just...... I am absolutly appauled by what you just said, its defenetly coming from a mind that doesnt Want to even consider the possibility that Jesus was telling the truth and lived. Oh Joelly... when will you learn? Humans are born pure and innocent, without any 'sin' at all. Babies cannot 'sin' because they have no free will, and if they cannot sin, then how can they be evil in any way? Jesus was not perfect. He was, at the very least, a schizophrenic who thought he was talking to the god of the jews. At the worst he was entirely in his right mind and he was an expert con man: he did, after all, convince many people that he was not only the son of god, but that he came back from the dead (this is assuming, of course, that the accounts of his resurrection aren't either falsified or total fiction, and also assuming that the guy existed at all). On a different note: I ask you, Joel, how many of the prophecies in the bible have been fulfilled to the letter, IN MODERN TIMES? It's all well and good to say Jesus fulfilled many of the prophecies of the Messiah stated in the old testament, but for all you know the prophecies could have been altered to fit the Man, or the Man could have been lied about to fulfill the prophecies. When a biblical prophecy comes to pass in modern times, you let me know and then I'll rethink this Christ dude.
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Post by H-Zence on Apr 10, 2004 17:44:22 GMT -5
That's one of the few lines I disagree with in your post. I think babies, like all humans, have free will. The difference is that they haven't developed their motor skills and thus cannot just get up and start prancing around. Breaking news! Every Christian in the world just disappeared!
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