Man(flawed) created in God's image(flawed?)

[WaffleHouse]

Since I was never a big poster(hmm), I don't know maybe you guys covered this, but I'm going to ask anyway.

God creates man in his image to live life in complete happiness and bliss. Ok that sounds great, but man made a mistake and then got completely screwed. If man, created in God's likeness, made a mistake, doesn't that mean God is capable of mistakes. And if not, why would he make us flawed, what is the point, to protect his status as the only worshipped being?

I don't understand any of this, so help me out.

[Satori]

I think your Christians would argue that when He created us we were perfect. It was only the doings of the devil (Eve, the apple and the serpent etc.) that made us imperfect.

Personally I think we created God in our image and that Genesis is just a story or, at best, merely symbolic.

[Areopagite]

OK a few things here. Happiness and bliss are byproducts of man's existence. It is acheived through worship. Note though, that the primary purpose of man existence is worship, not himself. Secondly, man doesnt just make a simple mistake (oops, did I sin?), rather man is confronted with the choice between good and evil, and chooses evil in rebellion against God. Man being created in God's image doesn't mean his actual physicality. Is man omnipresent? Certainly not. God endowed men with certain gifts that seperates us from the animals (and thus, why we are given dominion over them), such as the existence of a soul, the ability to reason, etc. Another special gift given to men is that of free will. Man was not created flawed, but he was given free will. Man chose (the use of that very gift) to use this gift in rebellion against God. This is seperate from flawed. Please note the distinct difference.

Satori, although the devil's hand in the fall must be noted (for he confronted Adam with the choice between good and evil), it is man that destroyed himself through his act of rebellion. It is still that way today. For, "people loved the darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil" (John 3:19) and "None is righteous, no, not one" (Romans 3:10). Man continues to rebel against God. It is only by divine intercession (through Jesus Christ) that man's ruptured condition can be mended, and our standing in God's eyes be made right again.

[Satori]

areopagite said:

Satori, although the devil's hand in the fall must be noted (for he confronted Adam with the choice between good and evil), it is man that destroyed himself through his act of rebellion. It is still that way today. For, "people loved the darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil" (John 3:19) and "None is righteous, no, not one" (Romans 3:10). Man continues to rebel against God. It is only by divine intercession (through Jesus Christ) that man's ruptured condition can be mended, and our standing in God's eyes be made right again.

Well as you know I don't subscribe to that line of belief, but thanks for clarifying it.

It might be true to say, though, that without the devil we might not have 'fallen'. God, for reasons best know to Himself I guess, gave us this free will and then chose to allow the devil the tempt us knowing full well (Him being omniscient and all that) that we would succumb to the devil's temptations. I just can't see the point in that, although I presume it's got something to do with his 'mysterious ways'. I'm not sure I'd see the point in it even if I believed in it (although, obviously I can't be sure of that).

[Shiggy]

But God also created the devil, so the problem remains. How can a perfect being create a flawed creation?

[Satori]

shiggy said:

But God also created the devil, so the problem remains. How can a perfect being create a flawed creation?

I always find this ties in with the supposed omnipotent/omniscient nature of God. Either He's omnipotent and allowed the evil or He's not omnipotent and therefore had no control over the evil.

But if He's omnipotent, omniscient and allowed the evil, then He would already have known the outcome of doing that before He did it.

Furthermore, if He's omniscient and can see past, present and future in its entirety, then that means the future must be completely deterministic (or He wouldn't be able to see it), so we do not, in effect, have any free will.

Strangely, in physics, the future is deterministic in an odd sort of way. There are circumstances in which our relativistic future must be available, although that could be complicated by the old quantum trousers of time stuff. Trousers have a lot to answer for.