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Post by ContentUnitShifter on Jan 3, 2004 3:41:07 GMT -5
This idea brought up by Joel, but pondered by many. ;P Is man inherently evil? Or is there another explanation for the horrible things people do to one another? And if so, is it the "Pleasures and tortures" of the flesh that have driven man so far from his supposed similarity with God? My belief is the simple evolutionary one....Men ARE animals evolved, and thus, the same bit of selfish (see: evil) desires and drive are remnants of a more competitive, savage life that have been subliminally passed down through our genetics, ala left-over instincts or traits, a physical example being the small leg bones still developed in sea-mammals such as the dolphin or whale. However, I'm up for hearing what everyone else has to say, as well.
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Post by PaganPriest on Jan 3, 2004 11:37:43 GMT -5
This idea brought up by Joel, but pondered by many. ;P Is man inherently evil? Or is there another explanation for the horrible things people do to one another? And if so, is it the "Pleasures and tortures" of the flesh that have driven man so far from his supposed similarity with God? My belief is the simple evolutionary one....Men ARE animals evolved, and thus, the same bit of selfish (see: evil) desires and drive are remnants of a more competitive, savage life that have been subliminally passed down through our genetics, ala left-over instincts or traits, a physical example being the small leg bones still developed in sea-mammals such as the dolphin or whale. However, I'm up for hearing what everyone else has to say, as well. i have a hard time believing that man is inherantely anything. i think that humans are born neutral, lets call it that, and things happen along his or her life, to cause him or her to be evil or good.
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Post by H-Zence on Jan 3, 2004 18:38:01 GMT -5
Well, this isn't something that can really be proved in my eyes. The only way you could really find out is if you put a newly born human (or human that somehow has no memory of anything) on an island away from civilization. Then, let the human raise itself and learn by itself and see what happens...
...even though that wouldn't work...
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Post by Scot on Jan 3, 2004 18:52:01 GMT -5
Well, it depends what is being considered evil. The bible considers lust a sin, but it's human nature. Thanks, God, for giving man an overwhelming sex drive and then telling us we can't have sex.
But as far as other things, such as lying, and hatred, and vengefulness for lack of a better word...i consider all those to be on the evil side of human nature, and I believe that if the human race was wiped out and started over with one man and one woman, they would still sin just as people today do.
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Post by Scot on Jan 3, 2004 18:53:23 GMT -5
i have a hard time believing that man is inherantely anything. i think that humans are born neutral, lets call it that, and things happen along his or her life, to cause him or her to be evil or good. Ah, yes, that is a good point. It does take something in a person's life to cause them to be evil, just like it takes another thing to make them do good.
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CrotchKickSteve
Novice
God owed the mofia 10 bucks 3000 years ago and was never seen again
Posts: 60
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Post by CrotchKickSteve on Jan 3, 2004 23:46:32 GMT -5
Ill have to agree with what Pagan said. Being born neutral, and then letting the environment mold Good/Bad characteristics.
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Post by JesusOnaBicycle on Jan 3, 2004 23:56:47 GMT -5
I just think man is born inherently selfish, like an animal. In every society, there is conflict because of simple things such as jealousy, hate, fear, etc. We live at the expense of others, just as animals do. woof.
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Post by joelhaldeman on Jan 9, 2004 16:35:26 GMT -5
God did not give you an overwhelming sex drive it has been created by society. It is true though that God made man to want to have sex and to have a strong sex drive but what he gave us is controlable. The bible says that you will never be tempted beyond what you can handle. He may have been talking to the whole world or just the christians i am not sure and havnt really thought about it and dont have time cuz its soon time for work and i wanna type now. ANYWAY Yes you were born with a sex drive and America knows this so they give us comercialls with woman dancing around guys drinking beer and naked people in movies and everything seems to revolve around sex. Woman dont like to wear a whole lot of clothing no matter how cold it is outside and they like to wear it so tight that everyone can see everything. But the reason you have an incredible sex drivem right now is because you have seen those things and have noticed those things. Man enjoys to see these things and has no reason to turn away. After 18 years of this it really builds up your sex drive. Recently i have read a really good book on this topic and have been trying to avoid these kinds of things and keeping my eyes away from sensual stuff. Trust me it makes a huge difference in the sex drive. What you see directly affects what you think and how your sex drive acts. Now for someone to say man is born eveil yet to say the bible isnt true is a little odd. If there is no bible and no religion then where do you draw the line for evil? If we evolve from monkeys and fish(as they once though we did untill they realised thats crazy) then there cant be any absolutles. But its easy to see that all children must be taught rules and they must be taught to obey them. IF a child has poor parents who do not discipline them well and teach them how to live then they generally are a "trouble maker" that is undeniable.
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Post by Scot on Jan 9, 2004 16:45:01 GMT -5
Well once again you are assuming. I don't believe in evolution for one thing, as I have said many times. Also, I don't believe the bible is wholly true, but then, I don't dismiss it as not true. I haven't even read the whole thing. It's like saying something about a book and never having read the whole thing.
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Post by Colliohn on Jan 11, 2004 1:37:13 GMT -5
I don't believe people can be innately evil, no matter what their initial circumstance.
You can go on about commandments and god's laws till you are blue in the face, but I am going to be a good person not because some fictional diety threatens me with eternal damnation, but because I want to be a good person, and because it is the right thing to do. (This kind of goes along with the "Laws" thing that was in another thread. The laws of America which Joel claims are the laws of his god aren't of his god at all, but of humans, and they were around long before Moses decided to climb a mountain and light a bush on fire...)
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Post by joelhaldeman on Jan 16, 2004 16:18:23 GMT -5
well honestly guys you cant really argue this if you believe in evolution. But anyway go ahead and define evil for me
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Post by Colliohn on Jan 16, 2004 16:59:49 GMT -5
My view of evil? I'll try.
For one, you need sentience. Animals can't be evil because they don't know the difference between good and evil and can't learn it, really.
I would say evil is, for example, when someone does something that would intentionally hurt another human being, or anything else with a nervous system, just for the hell of it, or for little good reason.
Evil is a rapist, or a serial killer. If you end life, or hurt others live's for no reason or a non-reason you are evil.
I am, as you probably know, an atheist. Because of my lack of belief in god, and our current inability to find any other life in the universe, I hold life in the highest regard. For all we know, we may be the only source of this complexity anywhere in the universe. This is why I don't believe in the killing of anything unjustly.
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jk
Novice
Posts: 84
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Post by jk on Apr 8, 2004 23:31:24 GMT -5
I believe man to be inately selfish and useless but not necesarily evil. I am rather fond of the theory of evolution and the fact that the human race is just another species of animals crawling about the earth. The problem is that humans have the ability of rational thought and are not subject entirely to their instincts. Animals act for self preservation. Humans act for self preservation also but they have a misconstrued idea of what oneself is. Humans consider their property and their reputation as part of the self. When their property or reputation is threatened people tend to act in an agressive manner. Children will often throw hissy fits if they see someone else playing with their favorite toy. Parents need to teach their children to share. Humans have a desire to consume. They take what is available to them and dont give a second thought to planet that is being ruined or how their actions affect all the other animals of the planet. I believe that humans aer the most detestable vermin of the planet. They serve no purpose in the "circle of life" humans have completely removed themselves saying that they are better than what nature intended for. When youre burried anymore they dont even stick you right into the earth. There is some regulation that the casket must be placed in a cement tomb so taht during huge floods the bodies dont get washed up. Anyway the point of that comment is that not even our dead rotting carcases go and benefit the earth anymore. The greatest testiment to the destructive power of man is to look at the rainforests. Man consumes them for profit, pure and simple easy profit. Man destroys thousands of years worth of a masterpiece so that he can sell some trees and raise some cattle there for a year until the grass wont grow and he's sold all of his cows to burger king. so they too can be consumed. From the point of view of an animal of the earth (which i am) Man is earth's bane. Inately corruptive and selfish and careless about anything that doesnt directly affect him.
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Post by Lynnet on Apr 10, 2004 20:48:03 GMT -5
Yeah. People seem to think that just because they have all this technology and sentience it means they can just do whatever they want. It is expressly because of this that they have such a larger responsibility to the organisms with which they share this world. Animals can't stop deforestation or development or pollution; it's all humanity's fault. People really need to care more and wake up and see what they are doing. And yeah, I am sooooo getting cremated...or turned into a diamond. That's pretty nifty.
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Post by Colliohn on Apr 10, 2004 20:55:11 GMT -5
fyi to you treehuggers:
Unless you live out in the middle of the woods and live off the land, you are part of the problem. I get so annoyed when people get all moral and 'high and mighty' talking down about people doing this and that to the earth... but guess what? If you have a computer and can see this post, you are part of the problem and until you life without reliance on ANY manufactured goods, w/o elecricity, or in other words are completely self-sufficient you are being hypocritical.
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