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Post by joelhaldeman on Apr 11, 2004 15:41:33 GMT -5
sorry to disapoint you but im still here, although i wish otherwise. Apparently collin can point to a point when jesus sinned, so ill wait for that one. They have found plenty of scriptures that date 250 years before jesus' birth. go research it. Everytime i mention this fact everyone seems to ignore it: THERE ARE OTHER WITNESSES THAT TESTIFY TO SEEING JESUS OTHER THEN MATTHEW MARK LUKE AND JOHN! The age we are in is called the church age, prophecy is not going to begin to be fullfilled again untill the end of the church age and the begining of the end times. No one knows when this is going to happen except God himself. Yes it has been 2000 years but a 1000 years is a like a day to the lord. In his eyes it hasnt been that long. There will be more things fullfilled, for one israel still exists after many many many years and even after being kicked out of their country and holocosted they continue to be a nation, israel must exist for the end times. How many other cultures have lasted that long undergoing holocosts and invasions. Lets not forget the six day war where israel was surrounded by 650,000 well trained arab troops from 5 different nations. They managed to win this war with there dinky army of 45,000. Thats amazing. Look into it.
Jesus does give other hints about when the end times will be coming near. He does not want people to know the exact day so the prophecy is not specific. He says things like "there will be wars and rumors of wars" in the past decade there has been more wars then ever before. including that nice long rumor of war we had with the USSR. There is always escalating war in the middle east. Think of the past 100 years and think of all the holocausts. 6 million jews by hitler. 13 million russians from stalin. The closer holocaust of 5.5. million native americans when we decided to invade. Theres pol pot. lest we forget the 42 million aborted babies. "There shall be famines, pestilences and earthquakes, in diverse places" There is more earth quakes today then evere before. Although there has always been famines and pestilences AIDS continues to run rampant. "knowledge shall be increased" once again a vague one but knowledge has exploded in the past 50 years.
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Post by joelhaldeman on Apr 11, 2004 15:50:33 GMT -5
yeah and the reason he convinced so many people was because h did miracles and heres something that might convince me:he came back from the dead. There is a reason these 12 apostles decided there was something more important then living for themselves. There is a reason that all but one of them died a martyres death. MAtthew the tax collector was an incredibly rich man. He gave it up and decided it would be better to die for jesus and devote his life to mission work. Ya wanna know why, ill give ya a hint... not because jesus was a con man, because HE IS GOD! you can not trick someone into thinking you just fed 5000 people and later another 4000. You cant trick people into thinking you have been brought back to life. You cant trick people into thinking you are walking on water or calming a storm by a simple command. 500 saw jesus after he died. They saw him alive! There is a reason christianity is spreading so much and there is a reason its still around today. Becuase its true. Lets face it, Jesus hasnt been on this earth in the past 2000 years and he is still intimidating you and the rest of athiest/agnostic america. You can stand to see his name in the pledge or on the money you spend or on the walls of the high school. Because he IS God and after 2000 years he continues to motivate people to give over their lives. And he is still intimidating you.
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Post by Colliohn on Apr 12, 2004 20:33:41 GMT -5
sorry to disapoint you but im still here, although i wish otherwise. Apparently collin can point to a point when jesus sinned, so ill wait for that one. Oh, so what you're saying here is that if it isn't in the Bible, it didn't happen? As far as I know, every waking moment of Jesus is not in the Bible and infact when you compare how much of Jesus's life ISN'T in the Bible, you start to wonder what was going on during those times. Such as... sinning? You're asking me to find an instance of Jesus sinning. What disciple of a new religion would in their right mind write down their Messiah making a mistake? You cannot prove he didn't sin, I cannot prove he sinned. That doesn't mean he didn't sin. Unless there is a non-Bible reference to Jesus specifically, or of anything he did specifically, the ENTIRE thing could be fiction. The Jews haven't lasted their entire history w/o change: they have modernized, and there are few Jews who still adhere to ALL the rules in the bible, they're called Orthodox Jews and they are a tiny minority. Another culture that has changed as little as the Jews? China. The Chinese, up until the beginning of the last century, were almost identicle (not counting certain technology) to the Chinese of 2000 or 3000 BC. Same gov't, same laws, same culture. Oh, speaking of looking into the Six Days War... Israel didn't win that one, the US and other Anti-Soviet nations did. That conflict was but one of many battles/wars waged between American and Soviet satellite countries. Also, the Israelis had state-of-the-art American weaponry while the Arabs had obsolete weaponry from, say, WWI. Not a fair comparison... if you'd look at the past hundred years from any point in time, you could draw much similar conclusions as you have for our past hundred years. It's a steady upward cycle, there haven't been any leaps or jumps in the graph of history. War in the Middle East has been around since BEFORE Jesus. Not even gonna get into the abortion thing... There aren't more earthquakes now than ever before, or if there are I need to see some Geological backing to that statement. With AIDS: If you look back into history, every hundred years or so there has been a huge, deadly epidemic. In the past hundred years it has been AIDS. In the hundred years or so before that it was Influenza. It's all about mutating viruses and our taking time to adapt to them and gain immunity or at the very least be able to adapt to fight them off or find vaccines. I do agree with the knowledge statement, but overall the whole prophecy, just like any other, is as vague as it can possibly be without being outright bullshit. Bullshit. The only thing intimidating about the man is his ignorat and foolish followers such as Bush or the 'right to lifers' who are doing their damndest to take MY civil liberties away in the name of your God. Anyone who isn't intimidated or angered by that is just plain stupid. Hell, I'm not even sure I believe the guy existed, how can I be intimidated by him then? That's like being afraid of ghosts, or the monster in your closet. One last thing... The resurrection. If SO MANY people saw him alive after knowing he'd died, why was this kept to the Bible? I'd think someone coming back from the dead would get published elsewhere, like local Roman newspapers? Hell, even word-of-mouth to other areas of the Roman Empire or on trade routes that went through the area.
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Post by joelhaldeman on Apr 12, 2004 20:51:40 GMT -5
no but you made a statment and were pretty sure that jesus sinned and you have no proof of that, you just made it up.
well of course those prophecys are vague, i told you they are but they are the only ones that i can use in the church age because those are all there are. Jesus didnt want people to know the exact time of his return thats why they are vague. He wanted to have signs though.
-i didnt say israel havnt changed i said they still exist. There are very few people groups/nations that have lasted that long. Its especially amazing that a nation in the most hostile part of the word still exists!
There are non biblical references to jesus all over the place. Go look it up. Archiologists have found things written that are not the bible that have accounts of Jesus.
I agree if so many people saw this guy come back to life then this might be very well known. The 12 disciples were still ignorant about who jesus was untill they saw him come back to life. Once they saw him they all decided to become missionaries and go into all the nations and tell people about it. You want to talk about word-of-mouth? There is a reason the story of jesus is the most widly known story on earth! That fact alone gives it credibility. Why do you think christianity exploded after jesus' death?
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Post by desertfox on Apr 14, 2004 18:56:23 GMT -5
If it wasn't for the strong jewish lobby in the United States, Israel would not be around today.
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Post by Colliohn on Apr 14, 2004 19:54:03 GMT -5
no but you made a statment and were pretty sure that jesus sinned and you have no proof of that, you just made it up. Yes, this is petty, but what I said was: I said he was not perfect, I didn't overtly say he'd sinned.
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Post by joelhaldeman on Apr 14, 2004 20:10:15 GMT -5
not perfect=sinfull
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Post by Colliohn on Apr 14, 2004 20:41:54 GMT -5
only in your point of view
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Post by joelhaldeman on Apr 15, 2004 15:51:06 GMT -5
1 a : being entirely without fault or defect : FLAWLESS <a perfect diamond> b : satisfying all requirements : ACCURATE c : corresponding to an ideal standard or abstract concept <a perfect gentleman> d : faithfully reproducing the original; specifically : LETTER-PERFECT e : legally valid
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Post by joelhaldeman on Apr 15, 2004 15:51:54 GMT -5
without fault, whats a fault, whats a sin?
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Post by Colliohn on Apr 15, 2004 18:38:00 GMT -5
only in your point of view is a sin a fault. ;-)
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Post by joelhaldeman on Apr 16, 2004 21:41:59 GMT -5
oh yeah i forgot, relatives, killing people isnt always wrong........
....................
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Post by Colliohn on Apr 17, 2004 20:38:48 GMT -5
Killing someone ISN'T always wrong... if you live in a world of absolute rights and wrongs, then at some point you will very likely break your moral code on countless occasions. Such as if you someone tries to kill you and the only way to defend yourself is to kill them. If you stand by your morals you MUST let this person kill you, otherwise you are a hypocrite.
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Post by joelhaldeman on Apr 17, 2004 22:38:43 GMT -5
i agree, but theres always an alternative, such as running or shooting the guy in the arm holding his gun or just show love to the person trying to kill you. i know......"*GASP*"
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Post by ContentUnitShifter on Apr 18, 2004 19:14:00 GMT -5
....or just show love to the person trying to kill you. i know......"*GASP*" ....Because as we all know (And I believe history books will back me up on this), murdering mad men are easily distracted by hugs.
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